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Author Topic: How much story is too much story?  (Read 367 times)
The Founder
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« on: July 26, 2010, 12:54:48 PM »

So in consideration of a story I'm working on for SC, how do you know when you've planned too much plot or story? When does it start to feel like the characters are just being run through a linear adventure path instead of driving the story itself.

And on a related note, have any of you run stories with either pre-generated characters or collaborative characters where the SC defines a significant part of the characters background? 
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Shanna
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2010, 07:20:32 PM »

So in consideration of a story I'm working on for SC, how do you know when you've planned too much plot or story? When does it start to feel like the characters are just being run through a linear adventure path instead of driving the story itself.

For starters, when the GM starts pretty much ignoring what a player does in favour of keeping things moving along the railroad tracks, you know there's a problem.  Smiley

Obviously, everyone has their own opinion of what is 'too much'.  For me, if there's no actual room for the players to alter the prepared plot - that is to say, if the players can interact with NPC's in every possible way, and do all kind of funky, amazing things, but no matter what they do certain scenes will happen and the plot is going to run along a specific path all the way up to the end, with the input really coming to not much more than 'got to play in character and while swept along in the story' - that's too much. 

Interaction isn't enough.  I have to be able to make a difference.  Whether or not I actually DO is immaterial - the potential to make a difference has to be there, otherwise I might as well go and read a book.  More fun, and a lot less effort. 

Smiley 

Hope that helps, somewhat.  Again, this is just me.  Others might (and likely do) have different opinions. 

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And on a related note, have any of you run stories with either pre-generated characters or collaborative characters where the SC defines a significant part of the characters background? 

I don't believe so.   By significant part of background, you obviously mean more than 'all players must be psychic!' (for example), because that's not really a significant portion of the background.  By any stretch.
 
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 08:03:24 PM by Shanna » Logged
The Founder
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2010, 08:15:01 PM »

Thanks for your input Shanna. As far as SC working with you on the background of your character, I mean for example if many characters have at least one main secret that ties into the overall plot, one so impacting that others finding out about it could be story altering or life ending.

These secrets would be known in general to the individual character themselves and revealed in specific during flashbacks as the story unfolds. Obviously in order to have the secret properly tied to the other characters and the main events the SC needs to be able to coordinate them with each player.

About railroading the adventure with no deviation, yeah that makes perfect sense. Plus it makes it rather dull from a SC perspective too, everything goes just the way you planned? No thanks. Curve balls make things interesting.


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Shanna
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2010, 07:14:29 AM »

Thanks for your input Shanna. As far as SC working with you on the background of your character, I mean for example if many characters have at least one main secret that ties into the overall plot, one so impacting that others finding out about it could be story altering or life ending.

These secrets would be known in general to the individual character themselves and revealed in specific during flashbacks as the story unfolds. Obviously in order to have the secret properly tied to the other characters and the main events the SC needs to be able to coordinate them with each player.

I've probably done something on this level in the past.  I wouldn't be adverse to it, myself, so long as it didn't completely mess up my concept of my character (for example, a hidden secret that turns out to be grossly against how I envision the character and how they're played...  Smiley

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About railroading the adventure with no deviation, yeah that makes perfect sense. Plus it makes it rather dull from a SC perspective too, everything goes just the way you planned? No thanks. Curve balls make things interesting.

Absolutely!
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Shay
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2010, 09:54:27 AM »

Yes, I agree fully that characters should, as a general rule, always be permitted that freedom of choice. And the SC should be able to deal with those free choices.   

I try to strive for creating a story framework, rather than a complete structure.

So where is the line drawn on that? I think a framework brings characters recurrently to points where the question is posed - "How are you going to deal with that?" Or simply "What will you do now?" And leaves the ball wholly in their court.   It also allows them some latitude in initiating an activity, and branching the story off in a direction of their choosing. 

As I said, some latitude in doing so...because, too much of that, and you won't have a plot, any longer. Or a story. Assuming one actually wants a story. Not one of those where there are multiple locations threads, and characters wander in & out, having random interactions.   

I also maintain a non-public OOC, specifically so the cast and myself can discuss that framework with the cast as/if the need arises. This may kill some of the element of surprise, in some instances, but it does make for more truly collaborative fiction.  That may not appeal to some - It is my personal preference as an SC to work that way. 

Beyond that, I find it is truly more art, than science.  The longer any story I manage endures, the more I'm confronted with what I could have done differently or better...it is forever a learning process.  Like so many things. And sometimes I learn faster than others. Wink   

I don't know the above adds anything Shanna didn't already say, or that you don't already know, but it's all I can tell you.   

As to character backgrounds and pre-gens:   I can't personally work with pre-generated characters, nor adopt those of other writers.  I'm just not wired that way...it doesn't work for me. 

Now, the SC being involved with the character background, that's another story. Generally, I'm striving to create a persona.  There are usually and often a certain amount of details pertaining to that persona's background, that are not particularly significant to me.  These details, of course, vary from character to character.  A birth locale may be highly significant in the case of one character, and not at all for three others.  I'm personally well okay co-creating a character background with the SC, as long as the process doesn't  dilute that persona's core concept, nor push it in a direction that leaves me with no or reduced fire to write it.   

One game I played in over in RPOL presents you with a series of questions, about the sort of person you want to play.  You basically define the personality, social status, key attributes, skills and focus of the character. As well as some of the significant life events.   From that, the GM fleshes out everything  else that pertains to the background, and fits it to his world, which is home-brewed and pretty detailed. I really enjoyed that process - it was a lot of fun, and I ended up with a character I really wanted to write for.

In terms of the way you describe these secrets, I see no problem with that at all. It's a key part of your plot, apparently; of coruse, if anyone really has an issue, they won't join.  But every story is gonna have its deal breakers for some portion of the player population.   

     
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Shanna
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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2010, 10:12:25 AM »

As to character backgrounds and pre-gens:   I can't personally work with pre-generated characters, nor adopt those of other writers.  I'm just not wired that way...it doesn't work for me.

Seconded.  Wholeheartedly.

Nice post, Shay.  Smiley
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The Founder
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2010, 07:44:05 PM »

Thanks Shay, I appreciate the benefit of your experience. I like the questionnaire idea.
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Syndra
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2010, 08:09:20 PM »

I love having my SC/GM involved with my character creation as far as fitting the character into the world the SC has created. I don't want them to make choices for me about my character's personality, but background information, co-decided, makes for a richer integration with the story, I think!
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Merzedes
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2010, 08:37:43 PM »

I actually did join one story where I auditioned against several other people to run essentially a pre-generated character. The first time I ever did that. In this case that character turned out to be one of my favorites and I'm glad I won the chance.

On the other hand that is the ONLY time I've done that and I am quite aware that it could have gone horribly wrong. Not something I would chance often.

SC involvement in character creation, yes in some situations, certainly. A complex story containing complex characters requires complete collaboration of the player and the SC.

And I agree on the point that one's character actions and decisions has to make a genuine difference. Or what's the point.
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thesecretdm
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2010, 01:03:04 AM »

@Merzedes:  I'm going to assume you're talking about me, and I thank you if you are.  Words cannot describe the sheer appreciation I have for what you did with Kyle...from initial concept through every post he made...Kyle was so much more your character than whatever "pregenerated guidelines" I had put up for that audition.  Even if his story never came fully into focus...one day, I'm sure it will...the potential for Kyle's story to be told still remains.  Smiley

So, as an SC that has generated a variety of stories, from collaborative efforts to vague outlines to ones featuring pre-gen characters, I can say that, honestly, everything works.  It all comes down to the SC's commitment and the commitment of the story/setting's cast.  SC writing is, after all, a wholly different medium from anything else we're typically accustomed to.  There is more literal creativity on SC than in a table-top RPG; there is more individual creative control than actors in a movie or a T.V. show possess (with some rare exceptions); and yet there is still a framework we all function within.  Whether SC or cast member, we all express aspects that emulate a wide variety of mediums; we are part authors, part actors -- and, for the benefits of good storytelling, we are all capable of adapting ourselves to the conditions laid forth by an SC.

So if a new story popped up that was well written and appealing, but whose casting call was restricted to selecting from a collection of characters pre-designed by the story's SC, I'm certain there would definitely be takers.  And the SC would obviously be willing to make concessions to how those pre-gen characters, when portrayed, differ from their original concept...because, if an SC had an issue with how someone else wrote a pre-gen character once they helmed the persona, then that SC wouldn't bother with a website like this and would just hunker down to write their novel, complete in their solitude and satisfied with their absolute control.

SC writing is about the shared experience; no one gets into this without realizing the joys (and frustrations) of that kind of collaborative engagement.

It's 3 a.m. as I write this...am I just babbling?  Or did I add anything constructive to the thread?  Smiley

To the Founder:  Best wishes with your next writing endeavor.  Whatever path you decide to follow, I've no doubt you'll create something thrilling, engaging, and enjoyable -- for yourself, your cast members, and the large number of lurkers who will no doubt be following along...  Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2010, 09:32:26 AM »

That's very encouraging thesecretdm. I appreciate that. Most of my games I'd give a general guideline, like your character was near suicidal at one point. You can tell me why. OR your character has some mutation however small that gives them some advantage over others.

While these are usually character defining in some ways (but still leave a lot of room to make whomever you want) there is still a variety of things I can do inside the constraints of that simple setup to expand upon it as the game goes along. For example, you might think you were suicidal because you were a first class dancer that became paralyzed from an auto accident , but I know that the accident was arraigned to make you desperate enough to try a radical therapy. I might not reveal this until later as a twist.

However the types of things I'm considering now would be impossible for me to hide from the characters until later on since they form a significant part of who they are. For example, you might be the only surviving member of your race of shapeshifters (that you know of) and are forced to stay in human form because of the deadly persecution of religious fanatics. Or you might be dead, but your living self programmed and equipped his body to act like he would after he died; a ai robot in human skin.

These kinds of things should effect the way the characters act and respond to the environment so they would have to be known by the characters.
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thesecretdm
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2010, 11:10:06 PM »

You're welcome.  And I hope everything goes well for you in your latest story.  Have you already launched the title?
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2010, 12:18:25 PM »

Interesting you should use the word launch... have you been peeking at my notes? Smiley No, I've not started yet. Perhaps soon.
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