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[thesecretdm]

Hi everyone.

I know I've already posted a "casting call" of sorts for my newest title "Across the Stars", and I certainly don't want to overstep my bounds, but I see that posting replies in the "casting call" thread is discouraged, and I'd like to engage anyone visiting these forums in open dialogue.

Specifically, regarding my character creation guidelines:  http://www.storycrafter.com/story/act/read.php?storyid=5034&actid=21120

I'm looking for suggestions on other topics to include, ways to make the thread more concise, corrections I may need to make, additional materials or resources I may want to reference, etc.

I definitely have ideas of what I want to work on next for that thread, and I definitely need to get the thread done soon so I can get to the actual meat of casting my story and launching the pilot episode...but I would love to hear from the community about what I've got in place so far and what I may want to consider adding.

Mostly because I'd hate to flesh it all out only to find out I've included some glaring error OR neglected some very important step.

Thank you for your time!

[SuddenS]

As always, I shall be honest and possibly insulting - although I do hope to avoid the later Alas, you asked for an opinion. You shall have it.

If I wanted to apply to your game and read through these guidelines, I might feel a bit offended. I do think I know what your intent is. You want everyone to basically start with the same assumptions about what you (as the SC) need in a character application in order to consider it. However, to me at least it seems more like you are putting yourself into the position of a Tutor, a Teacher and lecture us (I just noticed that you even call them LESSONS, for peaces' sake O.o) that all of our characters, well... are badly written unless we follow this guide. Again, if I were to apply to your game, I would probably always skip down to step 5 in order not to frown every five seconds. The intro text aöready sounds relatively condescending in my ears.

There, now that I have probably insulted you, lets move on to suggestions because I really prefer constructive criticism.

I would say move about 75% of each post to a separate website (free hosters and all that). The only important parts are what you want from the applicants, so write that. Lets take the first 'lesson' as an example. It would be completely sufficient to write:

"1. Please have an Emotion A vs. Emotion B sentence featured prominently near the top of your application.  This should be a single sentence that sums up the conflict inherent to your character, and should hint at (if not directly establish) particular flaws your character possesses.
Example: Jova must reconcile his love for Annika with his loyalty to his Father, the leader of the Red Guard, and sworn enemies of Annika's family, the noble Dukai Clan.
If you want to know more about this concept, click here."[<- 'here' being the link to the whole huge explanation who said what and why that is significant for you]

Same with the second 'lesson' (sorry I simply can't write that without quotes... it still feels a bit... off).
"2. Utilize one or more flaws that build on the emotional conflict you already outlined, or that add depth and definition to your character, regardless of an association to the character's emotional formula.
Example: Jova's youth and inexperience make it difficult for him to relate to or understand his father.  He is blinded by love and prone to making rash decisions.  He yearns to build a solid relationship with his father and gain his father's approval, since his dad was away at war throughout most of Jova's childhood.
If you want to know more about this concept, click here."

Hm... I suppose you are already planning to have that at the end of your character creation rules somewhere, but just to be on the safe side I'll mention it nonetheless: Don't forget to actually have a general outline of what the application should look like. Most writers will probably already follow the general "Name, Age, Appearance, Personality, Background, Misc." order but it does help imo to keep it all sort of... streamlined

Last but not least: I just want to say that I actually agree with your 'lessons' so far and have already used them pretty much since... forever, to be honest... even when my writing was absolutely horrendous. The texts themselves are also well written and - as far as I can see, and I am far from perfect - bug-free. It is obvious that you are putting a lot of time and thought into this story.

[thesecretdm]

lol...no offense taken, SuddenS -- I just personally greatly appreciate your taking the time!  And you do make excellent points.  I suppose I should have also pointed out that my intention is to write the guidelines from the perspective of introducing someone unfamiliar with PBP gaming because, once I have the guidelines complete (and the rest of the setting/story fleshed out), I plan on doing some off-site recruiting (i.e. Facebook), to draw in readers/lurkers who may not be familiar with PBP or might have been put off by it in the past, along with introducing storycrafter.com to a broader audience, and also to make it easier for any non-PBP playing collaborators/contributors to transition into PBP involvement should they so choose.

But your critique has made me realize I didn't make this distinction or take into consideration the interested parties who may already be familiar with PBP writing/character creation and not necessarily need a "course" in how to create characters for this medium.

There is of course also the intention of reinforcing what some of us might take for granted: how to build complex characters.  If you've hosted stories on here before, I'm sure you've seen your fair share of "invincible" characters who possess no weaknesses.  You and I and many others might very well know to build characters with weaknesses and flaws for the purposes of creating richer, deeper, contextual elements, but with nearly 7,000 total members, I'm certain that not EVERYONE on storycrafter shares that same skill level or approach (and I understand only a scant few of those 7,000 are active, but the point is the same).  And they may not even realize they could use the help.

But your point remains valid, and well said.  Rather than transit the info offsite, though, I think I might rename the thread as the "Beginners" character creation thread, and create a character creation thread for experienced PBP/storycrafter users, with references linking back to the "beginners" thread, like you suggest.

Thank you again for your input -- and your kind words at the end of your post.  It really means a lot to me to hear.

[SuddenS]

Ah! Well that explains a lot and I like your solution to the problem

As a side note, keep in mind that the forums on Storycrafter aren't very active, so don't be disappointed if you don't get too many replies to this thread.

[ArchaeoGirl]

I haven't had time to read everything, but I gave it a brief look-see.  I definitely agree with everything SuddenS said, and I do see why you chose to set it up that way; however, I think the "teaching" aspect needs to be toned down yet more, even for people unfamiliar with RPing.  It's more the language than what you're advising, as SS said.   

In particular, this sentence made me squirm: "No matter what anyone tells you, or what you may personally feel, Character is all about emotion.  Trust me."

You just told people that their personal feelings about characters and what makes them tick are wrong and yours are right.  Now, I think I know what you mean and I mostly agree with the principle, but (in my humble opinion!) it is just not a good idea to set yourself up as the all-knowing SC who is to be trusted in all things.  You may believe that there's one right way to approach characters, but do you really want to belittle other opinions so bluntly?  If it's important to you that this be the way to look at characters and their complexities, then keep it, by all means!  I do understand if you want to promote your approach...though I'd still suggest trying to phrase it in a different way.  But, anyway, I just wanted to let you know that it sounded quite superior and might put people off.  In a helpful way, not a "grrrr why did you do that??" way!

Overall, I don't see any glaring errors either.  You probably are, as no doubt you realise, less likely to receive as many applications with so much of the background incomplete.  Some writers enjoy being a part of world creation and don't mind an evolving background, while other people prefer to know that the SC has a solid, fleshed out world before they take the time to apply.  But it seems like you are dedicated and persistent and intend to update whenever possible, so hopefully you will attract some good writers! 

Best of luck!

[thesecretdm]

Thank you, ArchaeoGirl!  I have to be honest...that sentence (re: "trust me") made ME squirm...but I opted for it because I was trying to incorporate a more "conversational" tone to the piece...but it didn't turn out the way I wanted, which is exactly what I feared.

Thank you so much for your help -- what you and SuddenS both pointed out has already been a tremendous help to me, and I'm glad I sought out these suggestions now rather than later...after completing a long and arbitrary thread and then dealing with discouragement from feedback. 

I'm going to revamp the thread right now...tone down the condescending parts (I hope, anyway) and present separate "beginner" and "expert" tracks to character creation.

If anyone has any suggestions to what topics I should incorporate or focus on, as well as specific topics to avoid, and/or what progression these steps should follow (from the perspective of what would prove most beneficial to an absolute beginner), please let me know.  So far, my outline for the character creation thread (revised from input received on this forum post) is as follows:

1. CASTING CALL -- The initial post of the C.C. thread will deal very specifically with what exactly I'm looking for by defining things like what key ship roles I need to fill (Captain, Engineer, etc.), which alien species are considered "playable", as well as the structure of the application I would like to see used (Name, Appearance, Public Info, Private Info, etc.), and also outline what freedoms/restrictions applicants have in supplying details.

2. DEFINITIONS -- The 2nd post will explain each of the fields I choose to use for the application, as featured in the 1st post.

3. SUGGESTIONS -- Basically the info currently in the C.C. thread, regarding "emotion a vs. emotion b", "flaws", etc.  These "tips" could prove useful to anyone who isn't familiar with them, but they could also be skipped over if need be.

4. PRE-GEN CHARACTERS -- Finally the thread is rounded out with a couple of example characters, for both ease of use and to make jumping into the story a little easier for anyone who isn't able to script their own character.

I think structuring it this way should allow me to avoid doing two separate threads altogether.

I'd also then probably do a separate thread related to gameplay/writing interactive fiction, for anyone who doesn't know how to get started.

Thanks again for all your help!

[Shanna]

Classy.  This is how to take constructive criticism. 

Good luck, thesecretdm!  I hope it works out!

[thesecretdm]

Lol...thank you, Shanna!  That really means so much to me! I take it there have been problems with how people handle criticism on here? 

[Shanna]

There are people out there who have an odd idea of how to deal with criticism they themselves have solicited. 

Plus, this is the internet.